Alpha Legion CSM assault choice

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The cosmic serpent
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Alpha Legion CSM assault choice

Postby The cosmic serpent » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:34 pm

I'm considering adding an assault unit to my Alpha legion. Warp talons look really good this edition but I got to thinking about forward operatives and chosen. I believe you can equip chosen with dual lightning claws (yay more pseudo raven guard) like you can warp talons. Each chosen model ends up being 1pt more per model than a warp talon with this configuration. There are advantages and disadvantages.

Advantages
+1 attack base in Chosen profile
+1 LD
Has Frag/Krak grenades
AL is known to use a lot of chosen (and they aren't daemons so fits fluff better)
guaranteed turn 1 assault (if going first)

Disadvantages
1pt more per model (with dual claws)
6" move versus 12" move
no invul save
requires 1 CP to move them into position or a transport vs "free" deepstrike

Alternatively chosen could also take a chainsword to retain the +1 attack (that the dual claws would provide) and allow you to carry a ranged weapon. Loses AP but gains some ranged ability.

Edit: Two 5 man squad of chosen with dual claws would have 16 attacks each 32 attacks total. To have a single 10 man squad you would have to use the chainsword build and you would have 31 attacks. Versus 5 warp talons having 11 attacks and 10 having 21 attacks.
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Re: Alpha Legion CSM assault choice

Postby Connman234 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:51 pm

IMO (as one that plays a CSM melee all the time) Chosen can go into a rhino. Warp Talons Cannot. I lean towards chosen, because easier to get into melee and don't need to cross a 9" threshold. You can also give them Icon of Wrath I believe to make them re-roll the distance. Can't with the warp talons. Warp Talons however, do shut off overwatch the turn they come on from deep strike.
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Re: Alpha Legion CSM assault choice

Postby MrScotty » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:52 pm

If it were me, I'd be taking terminators, 100%. The biggest issue with the RW/AL stratagem is that first turn is not a sure thing, even if you minimize your drops, and so its optimal to deploy dudes who aren't going to get instantly evaporated if you happen to flub that roll and your opponent gets to smacking them around.

Terminators that drop in into cover don't give a hoot if the opponent seizes and unloads into them. And if your opponent wins the roll, you can just choose to deep strike them and save your CPs, a terminator deep strike paired with Warptime is still a guaranteed turn 1 charge.

I would take a maxed-out unit of chaos terminators, equip them all with combi-flamers so that they can sweep aside any bubble wrapping units with their shooting phase and power fists to dish out the hurt, and make sure you've got a termie sorc ready to drop warptime wherever its needed.
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Re: Alpha Legion CSM assault choice

Postby Memento » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:30 pm

If you're thinking about Chosen, I think that Power Axe + Chainsword strikes an ideal balance between cost, S, AP and attacks.
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Re: Alpha Legion CSM assault choice

Postby Draaen » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:36 pm

I'd vote warp talons. The added tactical flexibility of deepstrike, fly and innate movement speed vastly outweighs the extra attack and Ld of your chosen in my opinion. My vanguard vets have been great for me this edition which are very similar to the warp talons.

That 12" move with fly and ability to deep strike is huge. For me my vanguard vets allow me to see my opponents deployment a bit more as they are my first deployments into reserves, they threaten almost the entire board with melee while in reserve, they can never be wiped off the table before they can do stuff and I can leave them in reserve so that I have a full squad mid to late game that just is too much for my opponent to deal with their weakened/engaged force. If I can hold out on dropping them in it's the best because they can help out wherever I need them to go such as where bad dice rolls happen or where my opponent deep strikes. With warp time you could just have a advance sorceror with your army and then cast warp time when your warp talons drop in range. I also think the warp talons have a much stronger ability to select a good secondary target and engage it (If they survive the return fire).
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Re: Alpha Legion CSM assault choice

Postby The cosmic serpent » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:00 pm

Terminators are appealing. For the same points I can double the attack output by going with 10 chosen versus 5 terminators and have the same amount of wounds. Terminators could fair longer due to better saves but are susceptible to multi damage wounds. Deep strike is nice though (then warp talons are back in for consideration). Guess I need to decide if the unit should have high offense and middling defense or be well rounded. I think the higher attacks/points makes the chosen more likely to earn their points back.
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Re: Alpha Legion CSM assault choice

Postby Indy » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:56 pm

MrScotty wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:52 pm
If it were me, I'd be taking terminators, 100%. The biggest issue with the RW/AL stratagem is that first turn is not a sure thing, even if you minimize your drops, and so its optimal to deploy dudes who aren't going to get instantly evaporated if you happen to flub that roll and your opponent gets to smacking them around.

Terminators that drop in into cover don't give a hoot if the opponent seizes and unloads into them. And if your opponent wins the roll, you can just choose to deep strike them and save your CPs, a terminator deep strike paired with Warptime is still a guaranteed turn 1 charge.

I would take a maxed-out unit of chaos terminators, equip them all with combi-flamers so that they can sweep aside any bubble wrapping units with their shooting phase and power fists to dish out the hurt, and make sure you've got a termie sorc ready to drop warptime wherever its needed.
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