AM TAC Battalions

Talk tactics or post your army lists and get feedback from our best and brightest.
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Sandtiger
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Re: AM TAC Battalions

Postby Sandtiger » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:15 pm

Weighing in here as I faced an AM list in a tournament - Baneblade + Tanks + screening infantry works pretty well. I lost 7-6 to such a list when I took a Death Star-ish list against it and it was a close and entertaining game.
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Eisenfresser
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Re: AM TAC Battalions

Postby Eisenfresser » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:32 pm

goblin wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:30 am
Ratlings are good, but you already own the Vindicare, and they're not *that* much better than him, just a bit cheaper.
The vindicare benefits from longer range, and the protection of being a character so it's a lot easier to play and the damage output is similar if not better against characters in the t4-5 range with 3+/2+ saves. If you're trying to optimize your damage output against characters then ratlings are almost always the choice, but the vindicare is much better defensively, that's something worth weighing.
My experience has been mixed so far about the importance of Sniping characters. What have others experiences been?
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AngelusSperi
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Re: AM TAC Battalions

Postby AngelusSperi » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:04 pm

Eisenfresser wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:32 pm
goblin wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:30 am
Ratlings are good, but you already own the Vindicare, and they're not *that* much better than him, just a bit cheaper.
The vindicare benefits from longer range, and the protection of being a character so it's a lot easier to play and the damage output is similar if not better against characters in the t4-5 range with 3+/2+ saves. If you're trying to optimize your damage output against characters then ratlings are almost always the choice, but the vindicare is much better defensively, that's something worth weighing.
My experience has been mixed so far about the importance of Sniping characters. What have others experiences been?
Mixed bag. There are plenty that can be ignored. Then there are 80 conscripts backed by a couple of commisars so you just cannot pump enough firepower into them to ever kill them. And then the guard officer orders them to put out 80 shots per squad at range XD.

Or there's a Tau character that adds 1 shot to all their pulse weapons when close. Toss that drones who are equipped with 2 separate pulse carbines... yeah 10 man squad put out 60 shots at S5.

So while you can practically ignore like a marine captain who gives rerolls of 1s (not bad, but just not in the same league), there are others who just have to die lol.
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Re: AM TAC Battalions

Postby Memento » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:06 pm

Eisenfresser wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:32 pm
goblin wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:30 am
Ratlings are good, but you already own the Vindicare, and they're not *that* much better than him, just a bit cheaper.
The vindicare benefits from longer range, and the protection of being a character so it's a lot easier to play and the damage output is similar if not better against characters in the t4-5 range with 3+/2+ saves. If you're trying to optimize your damage output against characters then ratlings are almost always the choice, but the vindicare is much better defensively, that's something worth weighing.
My experience has been mixed so far about the importance of Sniping characters. What have others experiences been?
Definitely depends on the match up. Lots of Space Marines love that their Characters provide cheap and efficient buffs to their gunlines.

Other times a Psykers hiding out in a blob can just vomit Mortal Wounds over and over again.

Yet other times Characters are just dudes who hang around and hit/shoot things.

YMMV
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Re: AM TAC Battalions

Postby wnbrice » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:23 pm

The problem I find with vindicares is that you really need two to get the job done. Two rounds of shooting from two vindis should kill most characters. With many horde armies(like orks) relying on a specific combination of characters to work it might be a solid investment. However the problem is that against a lot of armies they are basically worthless...
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Re: AM TAC Battalions

Postby MrScotty » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:38 pm

I ran one in a 1k game which was Guard V Guard, and found him relatively solid. I was able to snipe out a commissar over two turns (the second turn was when my melee units hit, so that worked out pretty well) and then he caused only one wound to creed over two shots. Definitely better at his intended role than in 7th (when 99% of the time he was just an Ignores-Cover S10 Ap2 shot that never missed against Vehicles, or he was sniping special weapons) but he's faring better than most sniper units.

ATM the big issue with sniper units is that they aren't *that* differentiated. Mostly they're single shot, heavy 1 units that wound on 4s and mortal wound on 6s, and there's not a huge difference between a Space Marine scout sniper and a Ratling who costs nearly half the points - or worse, a nearly identical Eldar Ranger who costs a whopping 20.

It may be just another instance like with Haywire and Melta vs more blunt-force weapons, GW erring on the side of caution a little too much for the value of the more universally available special rules. I'm certainly going to continue to try different configurations and I don't think you can universally say "Melta/Haywire/Flamer/etc is always bad, Plasma/High Strength stuff/low strength chaff is always good" but I wouldn't be surprised to see some of these costs dialed back in codexes. And I can appreciate the effort to not create a new super-powerful special rule weapon type ala 7th ed grav.
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