2k Team Ravenguard + Tyranids

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Draaen
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2k Team Ravenguard + Tyranids

Postby Draaen » Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:44 pm

So my brother and I are looking to enter into a 2v2 tournament together. We met together and talked over a list that we think would work well together.

General rules 2:
1k Per player
max 3 detachments per team
2 CP per player + detachments base
No CP sharing
Missions: Presumably more like what we do at the bunker for missions

Raven Guard
Phobos captain / Librarian?
Phobos librarian
3x5 incursors
2x3 squads of sniper Eliminators
1x3 suppressor
2 invictors warsuits

Tyranids
Swarmlord
Broodlord
3 toxicrenes
Maleceptor
3x3 ripper squads

My brother really liked the whole phobos tactical thing. Raven guard suits his style so I am sort of building off of him. He brings a lot of early pressure, screen clearing ability, board presence and some beefy combat dudes.

My list brings the big bodies. I can sling one monster up for a turn 1 assault with swarmy to help with the turn 1 charge. I can double move the maleceptor turn 1 as well adn while he can't charge he can still be a psychic battery. The maleceptor will reduce shooting strength ideally getting some raven guard as well. -1 to hit and -1 to strength while in cover would be a good defense. The toxicrenes are nice all rounders and are really able to put out a lot of damage. Rippers are more for positional play then anything else.

So the general scheme is snipers, suppressors and rippers on home duty. Everything else is in the midfield or crouched at the starting line. We really want first turn to crank up the pressure. We expect to tie the enemy up in melee initially turn 1. Ideally we kill a key character. Turn 2 would see the remaining monsters hit the enemies line and really deal damage removing the majority of supporting characters and tagging key enemy shooting units.

I think that the invictor warsuits may be better off with the autocannons as they could sit back in the -1S bubble and still be able to hit combat timing turn 2 while still meaningfully contributing.This would allow us to be more tactically flexible.

I am not entirely sold on the Maleceptor. I could see swapping him out with an exocrine as he can contribute meaningfully turn 1. At T8 the toxicrene is a big threat and harder to kill.

As far as the raven guard go not sure what cool stratagems or relic/warlord trait combos would work well with this group. We don't have a smash as he wants the lsit to stay phobos and he isn't hot on the special character since he wants it more of a his dudeds style list. So I am not sure how much a captain is bringing to a list when the incursors will be spread out for board control. If he becomes a chapter master and moves in with the invictors that guy is exposed pretty hard and an easy kill. Adding another psyker means more situational smites at -1 to cast from shadow in the warp. I think playing around 1 will be manageable. Playing around 2 would be kind of nuts.

Anyways I am really interested in hearing other peoples thoughts.
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Sandtiger
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Re: 2k Team Ravenguard + Tyranids

Postby Sandtiger » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:28 am

Phobos Captain with sniper rifle that sits with the Eliminators might do some good work. I agree with you that you don't want another Librarian. Phobos Lieutenant might be another option that is worthwhile, you could send him in with the Invictor Warsuits to bring more killing power and the wounds reroll.

I don't understand your brother's reluctance to play with Shrike especially since Shrike works well with Phobos armored guys, but if he's bound and determined not to play with Shrike then okay.

Do you think he'd consider a JP Chaplain? I love what my JP Chaplain brings to my army and play with him as much as I can.
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Draaen
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Re: 2k Team Ravenguard + Tyranids

Postby Draaen » Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:36 am

I think he may consider any character changes really. If something isnt working right i think either of us can switch it up. He really likes the infiltrators and the eliminators. Suppressors are really in there cause he bought them. That and he thinks their kit is cool. I think theh bring a good amount of play at a cheap price.

Yeah he doesnt want shrike cause he wants to do a successor chapter. Prinarily so he can choose better colours to show off shading. So for him shrike would not be in the successor chapter. He may change his mind if we find them to be the change we need though.
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I'm happy to play lower points levels with people who are staring out or building up new forces
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Connman234
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Re: 2k Team Ravenguard + Tyranids

Postby Connman234 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:44 am

From what I see, there is sadly no real thing that makes me go, "That's scary. I have to deal with it." The swarmlord goes more with a blob of genestealers in a Kraken Batallion. I would say a Flyrant will do much better there than a swarmlord, because you can still move the Flyrant far and use Onslaught to make him charge after advancing. Heck, you could drop the broodlord and one of the other big bugs to bring both the Swarmlord and Flyrant. I also understand your thoughts on the maleceptor and I agree. Exocrine would be better, because it also gives you some ranged shooting. Hive Guard are also great for shooting things.

As a test list for Tyranids,
Batallion: Kraken
Swarmlord
Flyrant: Monstrous Scything talons, 2 Devourers, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
3x3 Rippers
4 Hive Guard: Impaler Cannons
Toxicrine
Toxicrine

This quick list lets you get to things quickly, but lets you still have some very good anti-tank options for range.

Now if you want to go pure shooty/artillery bugs
Batallion: Kronos
Flyrant: Monstrous Scything talons, 2 Devourers, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
Hive Tyrant: 2 Devourers, Heavy Venom Cannon
3x3 Rippers
5 Hive Guard: Impaler Cannons
Exocrine
Carnifex: Heavy Venom Cannon, 2 Devourers, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts

Pretty much the Exocrine Sits back, everything else walks up slowly and shoots all the big scary things. Since most Tyranid weapons are assault, they can do regular moves and still shoot normally. The Flyrant can be made to have 4 devourers for all the dakka against screens.
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Draaen
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Re: 2k Team Ravenguard + Tyranids

Postby Draaen » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:58 pm

I was kind of thinking the Toxicrenes and Swarmy would be my big "Oh no" threat. Toxicrenes I think have quite a bit of ability to be a general brawler. They have get a good amount of damage output for their cost. I don't think I can get anything as immediately "Oh no" as my brothers invictor warsuits with nidzilla.

Durability:
T7 3+ Save 12 Wounds - With -1 S aura they are effectively T8 until they get into combat.

Shooting:
Bs 4+
Toxic Spores - 12" D6 shots S3 re-roll failed wounds ignore cover
Toxic Lashes - 8" D6 Shots S User AP -2 D3 Damage re-roll failed wounds, can be shot into and out of combat
Re-roll 1 miss

So when a toxicrene makes it to the enemy lines he is happily chipping in against all targets. Just a nice bruiser.

Melee:
First they move 8" so I have a turn 2 charge typically and a turn 1 with swarmy. So they can get into threat range
At top bracket
6 Attacks 2+ to hit S8 AP -3 Damage 1+D3 re-roll failed wounds, always strikes first
Re-roll 1 miss

Special Rules:
Stop a unit from falling back for 1 CP
mortal wounds to models within 2" on a 6
deals mortal wounds as he is getting hurt on a 6

All that for 125 points. It seems like a bargain to me and that like 3 of them hitting your lines would be super scary. There would also be finessing with shooting into combat and trapping models I think I can fool opponents.

I do like the flying hive tyrant a lot. I think one list I spit balled was like 3 hive tyrants and swarmy. I kind of see that first list hitting most of the elements I am looking at really. The hive guard are an interesting choice since they are so well protected. The invictors are going to take a ton of hate unless I take a ton of hate instead. If I invest that heavily into hive guard but have 2 reliable turn 1 charge elements instead of 1 am I helping the invictors more or less?

I probably will shy away from a shooting castle. Karl and I want to make sure movement is a big part our game. I really want to make sure I am moving up into my opponents grill.

Writing this out I also do think it is a bit funny but most of the ranged damage in this list is either smites or ignore cover. Not huge but at least if people hide in the second floor they lose some benefit. Also another reason I like the flying hive tyrant. That guy can assault the second story. Not 100% on points maybe I am better off dropping the broodlord for a Neuro and drop the maleceptor for a flying hive tyrant. Then I get to use my cool flying hive tyrant conversion too!
Game Preferences:
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I'm happy to play lower points levels with people who are staring out or building up new forces
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Sandtiger
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Re: 2k Team Ravenguard + Tyranids

Postby Sandtiger » Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:02 pm

Expounding on the JP Chaplain idea - if you take the Litany of Hate and the Canticle of Hate, and give him a Jump Pack, he can basically be anywhere he needs to be and give either a +2 charge range to your guys aura or a reroll all hits aura around him for 6". Catechism of Fire would be useful as well if you want to be less all-in with him since that adds 1 to wound rolls of models shooting around him and would be great for the Eliminators, Incursors, and Suppressors. He can also be Smash Chaplain if you give him the Benediction of Fury if you want to do that. There are a bunch of other Raven Guard relics and special wargear that you could give him too that would all be good for a Chaplain but I'll let your brother figure out what exactly he wants to do with him if he uses that model.
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Draaen
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Re: 2k Team Ravenguard + Tyranids

Postby Draaen » Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:46 pm

So just to be clear I cannot benefit from his psychic powers or litanies directly unless they specify friendly models. En cephalic diffusion which the maleceptor provides specifically affects friendly models presumably so that it can help out the genestealer cult. So I would not get the +2" advance and charge unfortunately.

The more I think about his ravenguard phobos captain the more I like him. If you take the raven guard relic for ex-teneberus and the marksman honours walrord traits you get three S4 Ap-2 3 Damage ignore cover +1 to hit shots. Which can target characters and he gets +1 to hit and +1 to wound and AP-3 in the tactical doctrine vs characters. That with 2 eliminator squads and maybe the 2 shot sniper pistol on the librarian would really give us a good chance to remove characters turn 1.

So if I remove the maleceptor for a hive tyrant this is what I was thinking. With double checked points this time.

Hive Fleet:
+1 to hit on charge
Re-roll advance rolls/Heal 1 Wound/ Advance and shoot normally - I think in the previous list re-roll 1 miss if within 6" of a synapse creature is quite good but I lose any hide able synapse in this version.

Swarmlord
Flyrant - Heavy Venom Cannon, Rending Claws, Adrenal Glands - Relic for max 3 shots or +1 to cast and cast extra power
3 x 3 Rippers
3 x Toxicrenes
1 x Deathleaper

So deathleaper jumps out first thing probably. I just don't have the points for a neuro which is a shame since that would be a bonus command point. What deathleaper does do for me is give me a small bit of pinch hitting, reliable mid field objective holding, command point regeneration potential and the ability to shut down overwatch. With 9" move I would start him on the table. He would essentially be a weaker cheaper brood lord running with the toxicrenes safely turn 1 and then breaking free to do whatever is most valuable that turn. -2 to hit and the character key word should keep him pretty well alive. Plus deathleaper is cool and it would give me an assassin as well!

I do worry about losing my synapse early. Hive tyrants become big targets and getting -2" to charges on the toxicrenes and -1 to hit when shooting targets which aren't the closest would really suck. I also think I get a lot of value out of the re-roll miss if within 6" of synapse with the broodlord maleceptor combo. Flyrants are just so expensive! Plus they don't really hold up in melee with only 4-5 attacks depending on load out.

Or again another option
Swarmlord
Walkrant - Heavy Venom Cannon, Rending Claws Relic for max 3 shots or +1 to cast and cast extra power
3 x 3 Rippers
3 x Toxicrenes
1 x Broodlord

Walkrant is putting out pretty well the only high strength ranged damage. Just shy of the points needed to give him death spitters to go with the venom cannon but with the claws he is able to hold up the rear and brawl decently well. I still keep the broodlord who seems to give a lot of melee pop for his cost while keeping a nice synapse boost for the toxicrenes. It has a bit more reach out and touch people turn 1 and changes the maleceptor into a model which is contributing offensively right from the get go. Also I get +1 command point! I could get the death spitters on the hive tyrant if I swapped out the brood lord for a neuro so there is some flexibilty in the HQ choices.
Game Preferences:
Current Beta rules in effect
I'm happy to play lower points levels with people who are staring out or building up new forces
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Sandtiger
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Re: 2k Team Ravenguard + Tyranids

Postby Sandtiger » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:47 pm

Oh I didn't mean that he would give YOU benefits - this would however give HIM a nearly guaranteed charge no matter what if he wanted to charge things after shooting if he took the Chaplain. If you didn't want to do that and instead just gave him Catechism of Fire he could still go anywhere you wanted and provide a bonus to wound rolls, and be pretty beastly in melee himself if he goes in. If the Raven Guard are gonna hang back though I think you're right that you should just take the Phobos Captain and give him Marksman's Honours and all that. You do have a REALLY good chance to take out characters with the Eliminators and Captain.