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Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:23 pm
by MrScotty
So, strategy wise I like what you're doing here with the heavily defended Triumph and the Celestian ball. I also like the Mortifiers (though it's worth noting they benefit from the Triumph's benefits, so against a melee opponent I would deploy them as a screen with the Triumph behind them but within consolidation range). I think a single imagifier is a bit of a target and I'd rather spend whatever, 45pts for a second one than 1CP - that's just me tho. Just remember they don't benefit Katherine or Celestine, sadly. I also agree you want to get both those canonesses on the board, spendy as they are - you might even consider using the Heroine training on a lesser importance character just to distract the enemy's sniper fire. Spend 2CP on beacon and litanies and I know where my snipers are pointed, but give the +1S banner Beacon instead and suddenly I'm not so sure.

I do think 3 squads of basic sisters with no heavy bolters and 1 squad of 10 retributors and 4 heavy bolters is a better spread of models, gives you the same CP and model count and the rets will be move and shooting without penalty for the HBs so they'll do the same damage the BSS would.

I also don't know if I see the optimal use case for the Seraphim and Cel with the 8x fusions. If you kept 1 squad 2x fusions and planned to use Burning Descent on them, and then made the other 2 squads 7-woman squads, gave them hand flamers instead and declared them Bloody Rose I think that's a better setup. Because ideally Cel and Pals start on the board as a 3+/4++ screen that ignores AP-1 (because there ain't no fun gun to shoot at that!) and I don't think the meltas are particularly better than more ladies if you start on the board. 4d6 S3 Ap-1 and 4x S4 Ap-1 shots seems better to me than 4x S8 AP-4 shots in most situations. Even against high toughness targets, the flamers and extra pistols actually deal about 3 unsaved wounds on average, vs 6 with the meltas, and the meltas basically fare worse against every non-vehicle target out there.

As Celestine isn't really a tank hunter anyway, leave them on anti-infantry duty except for the one drop squad.

Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:06 pm
by spruter
Good point on the imagifier.

The reason for so many troops was I remember playing one mission where you could only take objectives if you were a troop so in case of those kinds of missions I wanted to have enough on the board.

My meltas for the celestians was mostly because i wanted to have them maximize their rerolls to hit so it seemed like a good place for anti tank. My old lists had 12 strength 8 weapons and it was never enough so I felt seraphim skystrike was a good place to get the anti tank where I needed it. That being said if it's too much I do feel like Seraphim would be a good place for flamers because I am sorely lacking in the heretic burning department.

Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:01 pm
by MrScotty
Not the celestians, I think the melts there is ideal. Best place for melta. I'm contesting the 2 seraphim squads who won't get to use Burning Descent turn 2. Seraphim in bloody rose are amazing screening units with hand flames and I think they're wasted chilling out In deep strike waiting for turn 3 or 4.

My reasoning for putting the hbs in a big ret squad is to make the sisters better at holding objectives. A good objective holder is a unit your opponent has no reason to fear. Rets are a unit that conventional wisdom says to kill, but they're actually your single most defensively efficient unit on the board especially in cover.

You present a few good lose-lose scenarios with your list to your opponents. Though I would worry that a bunch of space marine intercessors with AP-2 would be hour biggest problem.

Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:47 am
by MrScotty
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp- ... e1e77d.pdf

Translation:

"Whoops, sorry about that canoness thing."

Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:14 pm
by spruter
Also apologies to everyone I played with on the miracle dice. I guess I need simulacrums to spend multiple dice in a roll. But I'm starting to wonder if accruing as many miracle dice as possible is even worth it if I need to spend as often as possible to break even.

Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:55 pm
by Connman234
spruter wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:14 pm
Also apologies to everyone I played with on the miracle dice. I guess I need simulacrums to spend multiple dice in a roll. But I'm starting to wonder if accruing as many miracle dice as possible is even worth it if I need to spend as often as possible to break even.
From what I read, there are situations that allow you to spend multiple dice at once. Rolling a charge for example, would still be able to use two miracle dice, because both of the dice are added together.

Now, a question since I am not as familiar with SoBs. Can you have multiple units doing the same act of faith, but each unit can only do one per turn? If so, then I would definitely feel like having as many miracle dice on hand is useful.

Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:09 pm
by spruter
Connman234 wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:55 pm
Now, a question since I am not as familiar with SoBs. Can you have multiple units doing the same act of faith, but each unit can only do one per turn? If so, then I would definitely feel like having as many miracle dice on hand is useful.
Only one act of faith per phase unless a unit has a simulacrum Imperialis. However if 3 squads each have a Simulacrum, and all 3 shoot, 1 squad can spend 2 dice for an attack and the other 2 can spend 1 each. This also means that the Triumph of Saint Katharine can take 2 separate attacks on miracle dice (if I'm reading correctly).

I think I've restructured everything in my brain so spending them shouldn't be a problem, but since I can't save them over the turns I will really need to burn them each phase or invest in simulacrums.