Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

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spruter
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Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Postby spruter » Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:35 pm

With the release of the new Codex I've been looking at how I should spend my money on the new Plastic Miniatures. I play Argent Shroud which has the following specific rules:

Order Convictions - Deeds, Not Words: When a model with this Conviction advances, it can fire its weapons as if moved without Advancing.
Exclusive Warlord Trait- Selfless Heroism: 6" Heroic Intervention, moves 6" during it, and fights first.
Exclusive Relics - Quicksilver Veil: -1 to hit a model with this relic.
Exclusive Stratagems - Faith is Our Shield (1CP): 5+ FnP against mortal wounds in the Psychic Phase.

The only one that stands out is deeds, Not Words which is huge considering sisters have limited mobility. I think i want to pour my resources into Seraphim which with the added +1 inches to advance conviction can move up to 19" each turn and still fire.

I do not have the points costs yet so this is a rough idea of what I wanted:

Celestine to give my seraphim 4++

Canoness with command stick, Bonus to shield of faith warlord trait book of st. Lucius so her auras are 9" to protect my vehicles turn 1

3 immolaters with flamers
3 5 man battle sister squad with meltas

2 rhinos with 10 man retributor squads full of heavy flamers

3 5 man sisters of battle squad with heavy bolters and storm bolters for objective camping and CP (plan to burn a lot of CP)

Fill the rest with Seraphim. Depending on how the points work out I hope to have at least 6 squads 2 with flamers (4d6 hand flamer shots per squad) 4 with Inferno pistols (4 Melta shots per squad)

You'll notice I no longer plan on bringing my exorcist, I think If I have a super fast army having immobile units seems wasteful especially if I can do the same thing for cheaper with seraphim. Considering how good some of these factions are comparatively I need to have one vision and execute it. I also no longer plan on bringing repentia, but unfortunately Bloody rose is the most viable. If I need melee I wanted to maybe do arco flagellants as they seemed fun and don't require a million buffs to make them useful or do Penitent engines so I could have something in my army with greater than 8 strength.

I know this is all speculative so my apologies for how vague it is, but is my reasoning sound? Is there an important piece I'm missing that could potentially help? (zephyrim possibly?)
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Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Postby Connman234 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:26 pm

If what I heard from reviewers are true, the buffs to invulns now only apply to infantry and not vehicles. Even with that, I feel as though the Exorcists are still very useful. If the order trait is correct, it is still very mobile even with the exorcists. Take Iron Hands for example, the fact that they can ignore heavy penalties makes all vehicles extremely more mobile and not stationary, because there is no penalty for moving. It could be the same with the exorcists, but on the condition that you have to advance. So all the mobility you need is there. the Seraphim could be useful, but you don't have a lot of ranged anti-tank shots. Yes, you can advance the unit to get them into range, but they are squishy and easy to shoot off the table (depending on auras).

These are just my thoughts from what I've seen and heard. Feel free to prove me wrong.
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Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Postby Sandtiger » Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:51 pm

Yeah I have to agree with Spencer - T3 is going to be very easy to shoot off the table if your opponent goes first. You should definitely still have an Exorcist in your army imo
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Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Postby spruter » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:38 am

Those are both very good points. And I looked it up and you're right about only buffing infantry now which changes my entire tactic.

I hear that exorcists are 170 points each now but it would be nice to have some t8 models. When I get my hands on the codex I'll post a complete list and we'll see how much they would cost. Penitent engines are dirt cheap and also a higher toughness so I'll play around with that. If the mortifiers have an order keyword that would be hilarious as I could advance and still torch everything.
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Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Postby MrScotty » Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:02 am

Of all the available options for traits I was the least impressed by Argent Shroud tbh.

It offers some good options but really leaves you at the mercy of those d6 rolls to position your flamer and melts for maximum profit.

The combo of traits that adds up to Ignore Ap-2 that then also applies to your tanks is just amazing. In a club that has tons of space marines with their stupid stupid doctrines the ability to say "oh, tactical doctrune, 8 ap-2 wounds? I take my 3+ saves."

Really the only drawback of that setup is you've got a lascamnon shaped hole in your defenses. You could probably run an entirely foot sisters list and have it come out incredibly strong.
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Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Postby Darth Hoodie » Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:49 am

Seems like you have a decent idea of what you want to run but I think sisters are going to suffer from the same problem tactical marines have at the moment but exacerbated by only being T3.
Points costs notwithstanding, Tactical marines die in droves to massed small arms fire. No amount of clever positioning is going to make a difference and with the absolutely horrifying amount of low AP shots most "marine meta" armies are dishing out with doctrines your power nuns are going to die in droves. If I were to go sisters I think a classic case of rhino rush would be resurgent. Maybe see what kind of list you can cook up while keeping your T3 power armor buttoned up in a transport. I had good luck early in 8th running a "Traditional" Black Templars rhino rush.

I feel like a similar list now would put lot of marine players on the back foot early because a lot of firepower is dedicated to anti infantry. With your girls buttoned up in a transport its unlikely they get decimated until they at least have a chance to shoot or maybe even charge. Just really have to do a good job at keeping those transports from getting surrounded.
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Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Postby spruter » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:02 pm

Both of you make very good points on the seraphim, and a rhino rush I was considering. I have 5 transports in this list so I think a lot of points will be used running a ton on flamers into everyone's face. I decided to paint my sisters as argent shroud way before they had rules for them so I want to stick with them despite the fact that i would really prefer ebon chalice (36 guaranteed heavy flamer shots yes please!).

That being said, let me make a case for seraphim. Each model of seraphim is 4 points cheaper than an assault marine. In addition they have a 3++ invulnerable save with a canoness and saint celestine nearby (that hasn't changed to my knowledge). An inferno pistol is only 7 points so I basically have 2 melta guns on two models. A total of 4 melta gun shots for under 100 points. Also I could lose 3 models and still dish out 4 melta gun shots per squad. In addition if I deep strike a few seraphim I can spend a command point to have them shoot in the movement phase and the melta guns become 12" (this was confirmed in the new codex).
Last edited by spruter on Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Postby MrScotty » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:46 pm

Ehhhh, I'd say that if anyone can tell the difference between any one non-marine subfaction and another then they can complain. :/ play what makes ya happy.

Seems like Ebon and Argent both have tricks for a rhino rush list but sisters horde with either bloody or the -1ap ignoring one seems SOOOOOO good.
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Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Postby Eisenfresser » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:47 am

spruter wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:35 pm

You'll notice I no longer plan on bringing my exorcist, I think If I have a super fast army having immobile units seems wasteful especially if I can do the same thing for cheaper with seraphim. Considering how good some of these factions are comparatively I need to have one vision and execute it. I also no longer plan on bringing repentia, but unfortunately Bloody rose is the most viable. If I need melee I wanted to maybe do arco flagellants as they seemed fun and don't require a million buffs to make them useful or do Penitent engines so I could have something in my army with greater than 8 strength.

I know this is all speculative so my apologies for how vague it is, but is my reasoning sound? Is there an important piece I'm missing that could potentially help? (zephyrim possibly?)
I don't see an immobile unit in an otherwise mobile army as necessarily a drawback. It's a 3"x4" hull that projects a 9" radius of deep strike denial. This is useful.
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Re: Argent Shroud in the New SoB Codex

Postby MrScotty » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:21 am

Eisenfresser wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:47 am
spruter wrote:
Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:35 pm

You'll notice I no longer plan on bringing my exorcist, I think If I have a super fast army having immobile units seems wasteful especially if I can do the same thing for cheaper with seraphim. Considering how good some of these factions are comparatively I need to have one vision and execute it. I also no longer plan on bringing repentia, but unfortunately Bloody rose is the most viable. If I need melee I wanted to maybe do arco flagellants as they seemed fun and don't require a million buffs to make them useful or do Penitent engines so I could have something in my army with greater than 8 strength.

I know this is all speculative so my apologies for how vague it is, but is my reasoning sound? Is there an important piece I'm missing that could potentially help? (zephyrim possibly?)
I don't see an immobile unit in an otherwise mobile army as necessarily a drawback. It's a 3"x4" hull that projects a 9" radius of deep strike denial. This is useful.
I think the biggest sticking point for me is the weakness to lascannons, which are the absolute perfect weapon to attack any of the SoB vehicles with that aren't Penitent Engines. If I were making an argent shroud list, my backline units would be Retributors with heavy bolters (who in AS can advance around the board firing heavy weapons with no penalty, both hilarious and good) and my anti-tank would come from seraphim and meltaguns in my sisters squads. I would probably go for a pure infantry focus personally, but I think all in rhinos/immolators would also be fine.

I think my biggest problem is I look at Valorous Heart, and I just think...man, I WISH I could play an army that durable in 8th edition. They just seem SO GOOD as a foot horde with tons of imagifiers giving them ignore AP-2, and Spirit of the Martyr giving them shoot when they die on a 5+. If I could ever resist the siren call of melee murderladies (Which, lets be real, I play Storm Guardian Eldar, I would end up with a melee sisters army) I would be playing Valorous Heart.

I feel like for transport/rhino rush Martyred Lady would be what I'd reach for (you probably lose 1 model each time your transport is destroyed, meaning your gals hop out at BS2+ WS3+ which is fun) and the two tactics that interact with miracle dice seem to be the weakest, but Argent Shroud seems like a decent middle of the road that could do either foot slogging or rhinos.
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