Fall to Chaos - Phase 2

Talk tactics or post your army lists and get feedback from our best and brightest.
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Eisenfresser
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Name: Steven Hirsch
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Fall to Chaos - Phase 2

Postby Eisenfresser » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:21 pm

Now with new Legion goodies.

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [57 PL, -1CP, 1,080pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment CP [1CP]

Gifts of Chaos (1 Relic) [-1CP]

Legion: Iron Warriors

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Soulforged Pack

+ HQ +

Lord Discordant on Helstalker [9 PL, 180pts]: Baleflamer, Master of the Soulforges, Mecha-serpents, No Chaos Mark, Warlord
. Helstalker: Techno-virus injector

Master of Possession [5 PL, 98pts]: Force stave, Infernal Power, Mutated Invigoration, No Chaos Mark

+ Elites +

Greater Possessed [4 PL, 70pts]
. Greater Possessed: No Chaos Mark

Possessed [5 PL, 100pts]: No Chaos Mark, 5x Possessed

+ Heavy Support +

Chaos Vindicator [7 PL, 146pts]: Combi-melta, Havoc launcher, No Chaos Mark

Defiler [9 PL, 144pts]: Combi-bolter, Defiler scourge, No Chaos Mark, Reaper autocannon

Maulerfiend [7 PL, 132pts]: Lasher tendrils, No Chaos Mark

Venomcrawler [7 PL, 130pts]: No Chaos Mark

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, No Chaos Mark

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Renegades & Heretics) [30 PL, 8CP, 491pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ +

Renegade Commander [3 PL, 25pts]: Brutal Assault weapon, Laspistol

Renegade Commander [3 PL, 25pts]: Brutal Assault weapon, Laspistol

+ Troops +

Renegade Cultists [3 PL, 56pts]
. Renegade Cultist Champion: Autogun
. 8x Renegade Cultist w/ Autogun
. Renegade Cultist w/ special weapon: Flamer

Renegade Militia Squad [3 PL, 46pts]
. Renegade Militia Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
. Renegade Militia w/ special weapon: Grenade Launcher
. Renegade Militia Weapon Team: Heavy stubber, 2x Renegade Militia
. 6x Renegade Militia with Autogun

Renegade Mutant Rabble [2 PL, 44pts]
. Mutant Champion: Laspistol, Power maul
. 9x Mutant with Autopistol

+ Fast Attack +

Hellhounds [6 PL, 125pts]
. Hellhound: Heavy flamer, Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter, Track Guards, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 170pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Heavy bolter, Heavy Bolters, Heavy stubber

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [23 PL, 401pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Alpha Legion

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 74pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, No Chaos Mark

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [7 PL, 112pts]: Combi-bolter, Force sword, Mark of Tzeentch, Prescience, Warptime

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 52pts]: No Chaos Mark
. 8x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Cultist Champion: Brutal assault weapon and Autopistol

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 98pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Combi-flamer, Plasma pistol
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Reaper chaincannon

Chaos Space Marines [4 PL, 65pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 4x Marine w/ Boltgun

++ Total: [110 PL, 7CP, 1,972pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

The Iron Warriors detachment is representing Dark Mechanicus. The only infantry there are the Possessed, Greater Possessed and Master of Possession. The Possessed will be represented with Sicarians and the Greater one Sicarian + Negavolt Cultist conversion.

This detachment's job is to run up and smash face. The MoP, Possessed and Greater all go in the Rhino to make it there and then it's game time on Turn 2. Getting off isolated Turn 1 charges is clearly doable but I'm concerned that it leaves units vulnerable. Could be situationally useful/appropriate.

The Alpha Legion is some more CPs, plus shenanigans. Lots of Shenanigans. The Chaos Lord gets kitted out as a sniper with the Relic and WL trait for that.

Not sure what's best/needed for the AL marine squads. That's why they're not filled in right now. My instinct is for the rotor cannon and combi-plasma. Or flamers. Flamers are fun.

The Renegades and Heretics BN is for more CPs, plus some vehicles that are good at clearing chaff.

I start with over 10 CPs and plenty to use them on.

Thoughts?
Game preferences:
+1 to going first roll if you finish deploying first
All terrain is "statuary"
No First Blood - it's basically a bonus VP for going first
Current Beta rules

Army
4,500 points of Imperial Guard
2,800 of tanks alone
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MrScotty
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Re: Fall to Chaos - Phase 2

Postby MrScotty » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:31 pm

IMO, having just one discolord who is the bearer of both the sexy relic and the all-important WL trait paints a big target on him, though I suppose the Rhino full of hurt does help offset that a little bit. I can see opponents getting bamboozled by the threat saturation and not throwing everything they've got at the disco, but having 2 discolords muddies that even more. 170pts for that regular LR, 180 points for a second discolord...man, I know which I'd rather have in this list.

I can completely respect the "I don't want to buy another expensive model rather than using what I've got" angle, but if the whim strikes you to make a wild conversion I think it should count as that.

I also don't know if naked AL lord is doing much. You might be better off with a naked sorceror grabbing Death Hex and Diabolic Strength and just running along with the party, since you can use psychic powers across subfactions. A lot of daemon engines have S7 attacks IIRC which would REALLY rather be S9 against a lot of targets, and Death Hex is just a great power for when you run into obnoxious pieces like 3++ captains and custodes who you would just really like to throw AP-3 Flat 3 damage daemon engine weapons into with no invuln saves.

My lists are generally constructed around either giving my opponents a lot to focus on that I bet on them not spotting the most important pieces (Here, have 3 raiders full of melee units, a venom packed with all my HQs, 12 bikes, and 15 hellions right in your face right now you better shoot at something!) or designating 1-2 pieces as my "stuff that will be distracting and annoying then die" which in my tsons list is generally Heldrake and warptimed Defiler. Generally I opt for door number 1 for melee-oriented lists, and door number 2 for mechanized lists that want to get units in position to do their good business turn 2.

This list is something of a hybrid. You have a desired setup with the transported bomb and the psykers which kind of lends itself to approach #2, but you're primarily melee focused and once your stuff hits, you don't really care about board position which lends itself to approach #1.

I think in terms of actually winning games, it'll come down to smart deployment of those chaff type units that your opponent is definitely going to ignore. Getting the alpha legionnaires into a good spot turn 1 in cover over 12" away and on objectives is what is going to be your way to win. getting your opponent to attack the venomcrawler, hellhound, russ and rhino turn 1/2 is how your list is going to get lots of killing done. I think a pair of CP towards Daemonforge+Infernal Machines on the Venomcrawler might make him a clear and present threat turn 1. That's also a neat trick with the more expensive twin lascannon defiler configuration, a pair of lascannons rerolling everything and popping a tank turn 1 really makes your opponent want to turn all his lascannons toward that very durable crab lad.
Game Preferences:
A model may assault upper levels of terrain if they charge far enough to climb them
All current beta rules in effect unless opponent prefers otherwise
I love setting up custom, fluffy scenarios, PM me!
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Eisenfresser
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Name: Steven Hirsch
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Re: Fall to Chaos - Phase 2

Postby Eisenfresser » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:39 pm

What would you drop for a second Disco Lord?

And if I did it, this would be the model I use: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Arch ... -Archmagos :-D
Game preferences:
+1 to going first roll if you finish deploying first
All terrain is "statuary"
No First Blood - it's basically a bonus VP for going first
Current Beta rules

Army
4,500 points of Imperial Guard
2,800 of tanks alone
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MrScotty
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Name: Scott Mechler
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Re: Fall to Chaos - Phase 2

Postby MrScotty » Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:26 pm

Eisenfresser wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:39 pm
What would you drop for a second Disco Lord?

And if I did it, this would be the model I use: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Arch ... -Archmagos :-D
The leman russ 100%. Only thing in the list that isn't cheap or exerting pressure.

Also, is that because you don't know scoria is a thing? https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Anac ... coria-2018
Game Preferences:
A model may assault upper levels of terrain if they charge far enough to climb them
All current beta rules in effect unless opponent prefers otherwise
I love setting up custom, fluffy scenarios, PM me!
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Kman2190
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Re: Fall to Chaos - Phase 2

Postby Kman2190 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:31 pm

Eisenfresser wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:39 pm
What would you drop for a second Disco Lord?

And if I did it, this would be the model I use: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Arch ... -Archmagos :-D
Steven you're brilliant and a swordsman so why not check out the Emperor's Children? Do you wanna know how to make GUARANTEED deep strike charges? Cuz I bet you guaranteed charges with yours truly, the Emperor's (favorite) Children...

*I thought I added this earlier but slipped my mind*

****
So you get some warp talons, an HQ with a jump pack and throw them in the Raptorial Host specialist detachment. The WL trait grants 2+ movement for charging and the new EC strat, Honor the Prince, make a charge dice roll a 6. So with this little combo you got 8+ to your charge. It gets better. Warp talons deny overwatch. Nominate a bunch of shooty units to shut them down.
Last edited by Kman2190 on Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FOR THE ALLFATHER
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Eisenfresser
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Name: Steven Hirsch
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Re: Fall to Chaos - Phase 2

Postby Eisenfresser » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:22 pm

MrScotty wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:26 pm
Eisenfresser wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:39 pm
What would you drop for a second Disco Lord?

And if I did it, this would be the model I use: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Arch ... -Archmagos :-D
The leman russ 100%. Only thing in the list that isn't cheap or exerting pressure.

Also, is that because you don't know scoria is a thing? https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Anac ... coria-2018
I do know about that model, but it's just . . . expensive and delicate. It IS excellent.

What about the Vindicator though - it's not really better than a Leman Russ Demolisher. I think the math says it's worse. Legion traits still ain't gonna apply to it, and it's not a Daemon or an Engine, so not may strats apply either. I think the LR Demolisher ends up being better. For about the same points.

And I can't put a third HQ in the IW Spearhead, so where does the MoP go, if I get a 2nd Disco Lord?
Game preferences:
+1 to going first roll if you finish deploying first
All terrain is "statuary"
No First Blood - it's basically a bonus VP for going first
Current Beta rules

Army
4,500 points of Imperial Guard
2,800 of tanks alone
User avatar
MrScotty
Officer
Posts: 1908
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:55 am
Name: Scott Mechler
Experience Level: Advanced
Play Style: Casual+Competitive
Armies: All of Them

Re: Fall to Chaos - Phase 2

Postby MrScotty » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:46 am

Eisenfresser wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:22 pm
MrScotty wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:26 pm
Eisenfresser wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:39 pm
What would you drop for a second Disco Lord?

And if I did it, this would be the model I use: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Arch ... -Archmagos :-D
The leman russ 100%. Only thing in the list that isn't cheap or exerting pressure.

Also, is that because you don't know scoria is a thing? https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Anac ... coria-2018
I do know about that model, but it's just . . . expensive and delicate. It IS excellent.

What about the Vindicator though - it's not really better than a Leman Russ Demolisher. I think the math says it's worse. Legion traits still ain't gonna apply to it, and it's not a Daemon or an Engine, so not may strats apply either. I think the LR Demolisher ends up being better. For about the same points.

And I can't put a third HQ in the IW Spearhead, so where does the MoP go, if I get a 2nd Disco Lord?
True, though sizewise he's definitely a better discolord than Draykavac, you'd have to give him some extra bulk somehow.

Anyway, the 2nd disco goes in the alpha legion detachment. Sure, that means he doesn't get the relic, but what he does get is the Alpha Legion Clandestine trait AND the alpha legion chapter trait, and you can make him your primary warlord. He still gets Warptime and Diabolic Strength, the two powers he cares most about, but he's an independent operative rather than tied to the rest of your deathblob.

Alternatively, I do think a LR demolisher is better than a LRBT. It does big damage with the D6s which people hate, and it introduces something of a ticking time bomb by starting on the deployment line and each turn it'll be in range of 6" more of your army. IDeally you want an opponent to see that T8 3+ and go "Hmmm, my lascannons would be real good at killing that instead of all these guys that would get a 5++ 6+++ against me..."

Just checking out the Legion traits and stuff, Fleshmetal Exoskeleton for the iron warriors definitely seems stronger than the special mechatendrils for your "I must Survive" warlord.
Game Preferences:
A model may assault upper levels of terrain if they charge far enough to climb them
All current beta rules in effect unless opponent prefers otherwise
I love setting up custom, fluffy scenarios, PM me!