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Re: Toms Quick Tactic Tip of The Week

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:59 pm
by MrScotty
Yep. The "perfect 40k player" is something like a good poker player. Constantly evaluating risk, cost, and reward of any given move. The best poker players can separate results from action entirely - it doesn't matter if an action worked, only if it was the best choice available.

In a game like 40k that's a lot harder. There are a great number of external factors. games take much longer than poker hands, the setup is asymmetrical, balance is constantly under question and there are a lot of totally non game related reasons people make choices with their lists. You have that "argh, curse you randomness!" Instinct you have to overcome with poker, but also a ton of other easy things to reach for as well.

There's an infinite number of little if/then variations in the game, and anything that gets pointed out is usually just an example demonstrating a concept that you can keep in mind. "how do I use my pile ins to maximise units tied up in combat" is one. "how do I use my units to impede enemy movement" is another.

Re: Toms Quick Tactic Tip of The Week

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:01 pm
by Indy
One thing I'm still cautiously confused (or confusingly cautious?) about is the multi-charge thing. If you declare a charge against multiple units, don't you have to make the charge against ALL of them for the charge to be successful?

So lets say me Orkz iz 7" away from Scott's Heroic Guardsmen, and 11" from the Super Loyal Commissar who values human life. If I roll a 7" charge, then don't I fail the charge completely because I could not make the charge against the commissar?

Re: Toms Quick Tactic Tip of The Week

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:28 pm
by Draaen
Indy wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:01 pm
One thing I'm still cautiously confused (or confusingly cautious?) about is the multi-charge thing. If you declare a charge against multiple units, don't you have to make the charge against ALL of them for the charge to be successful?

So lets say me Orkz iz 7" away from Scott's Heroic Guardsmen, and 11" from the Super Loyal Commissar who values human life. If I roll a 7" charge, then don't I fail the charge completely because I could not make the charge against the commissar?
You only need to be able to end your move within 1" of a unit declared as part of the assault in order to successfully complete a charge. So your ork would succeed on a charge despite the commissar being unreachable. To illustrate this I played against the dark eldar character which could not be overwatched. My opponent just said I declare a charge on everyone within 12" rolled his dice and then determined which would be the most beneficial assault to make once the assault distance was determined.

The reason I would declare the commissar as part of a charge despite potentially not getting enough distance to hit him is that if I don't declare him as part of the charge I can't attack him. If I do declare him as part of the charge I take a las pistol in overwatch and if I roll high on the dice or have a way so that when I activate my unit they can pile into 1" of the commissar I can hit him because he was declared as a target of the charge and was given an opportunity to overwatch.

For melee units it is sometimes beneficial to declare multi-assaults against two units if one is closer but lower value and the other further and higher value. If you fail the long bomb you take your punt and smash the closer squad. The downside is it potentially exposes you to more over watch from the unit you decide not to engage. You also help guarantee some extra movement if you are trying to get across the board and both units are already in combat.

Re: Toms Quick Tactic Tip of The Week

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:35 pm
by Indy
Draaen wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:28 pm
The “I declare Charges against all enemies within 12 inches” makes sense.

Guess I’m stuck 7th still when failing a charge against ANY targets makes you fail against all.

Re: Toms Quick Tactic Tip of The Week

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:41 am
by MrScotty
CHAPLAIN T wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:01 pm
Could you explain how that works in more detail? Soon I will have a few of these useless tax characters laying around that might be perfect for this tactic, but the subtle ins-and-outs of heroic intervention still escape me.

Activated, not activated. Charged, didnt charge. Eligible target, not an eligible target. What. The. Fuck.
Charge sequence goes something like this. With each step, I've tried to highlight a few choices that you can now make that in the old, mostly auto-pilot charge system of previous editions you had no control over.

Re: Toms Quick Tactic Tip of The Week

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:50 am
by Indy
Monty Python dimwits.jpg

Re: Toms Quick Tactic Tip of The Week

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:51 am
by Anacrucis
I am not smart enough to follow any of this. I think I will stay home and paint again :lol:

Re: Toms Quick Tactic Tip of The Week

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:38 pm
by MrScotty
Anacrucis wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:51 am
I am not smart enough to follow any of this. I think I will stay home and paint again :lol:
I could make one for the 7th edition charge sequence for contrast if you'd like. As I remember, it was

Declare Targets

Take Overwatch

Roll charge distance. A model must be able to move the shortest straight-line distance between its position and the base of each intended target unit to successfully charge, subtracting 2" if you pass over any terrain.

Pile in 3" in the shortest path possible towards enemy units you are engaged with.

Declare challenges, do whole challenge sequence

models that are in can fight (I think it was "either base 2 base or within 2" of model who is base 2 base"?), do initiative steps counting down from 10 and fight in that order

Consult WS vs WS table which is different from the BS table to determine if you hit

Wound, save as normal

Then the unit that lost more casualties takes a morale test minus the difference in casualties between the combatants

If they fail that morale test, each player rolls a die and adds Initiative, if the unit chasing beats the unit running, then they get sweeping advance'd and instantly murderkilled

If a unit is unengaged at the end of a round of close combat, they get to Consolidate D6"

That would take like...30 images for me to go step by step though. :lol:

Re: Toms Quick Tactic Tip of The Week

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:47 pm
by Memento
I believe the actual name of the last step was, "D6 Happy Dance"

Re: Toms Quick Tactic Tip of The Week

Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:20 pm
by MrScotty
Memento wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:47 pm
I believe the actual name of the last step was, "D6 Happy Dance"
I legitimately typed that automatically, remembered it was actually called Consolidate, and backspace'd.

Just as instinctive as me not being able to stop responding "I jink" to people declaring shooting attacks on me for a solid 6 months into 8th.