Help me figure out a Deathwatch list for zero dollars?

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MrScotty
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Help me figure out a Deathwatch list for zero dollars?

Postby MrScotty » Wed May 09, 2018 10:38 am

Hello friends! As part of my ongoing efforts to stop myself from spending tons of money during the leadup to my wedding, I have undertaken that big terrain project. But now it is finished, and the terrible parts of my brain are yelling at me to spend money on miniatures. But I shall resist, and I have a plan to do so!

In my basement, not sold off due to some sentimental value (and the fact that the minis are mostly worthless) I have a small space wolf force. Painted and assembled terribly by me when I was in middle school, they were my first warhammer army, a hand-me-down from my dad.

Because most of them predate the fifth ed space wolf sculpts, or are from the assault on black reach set, a lot of them are actually fairly non-wolfy, and in my opinion, could probably be repainted as a small Deathwatch force to support my other imperial doods, now that I can't take detachments of just Imperium stuff.

I have:

-20-odd power armored marines with various basic marine equipment. I will most likely be turning several into Storm Bolter guys because I hear storm bolters are now "the rage."

-2 dreadnoughts, one Old Bjorn with fixed fist/assault cannon loadout, one the current basic dread kit, so he has missile launcher/double lascannon but could have a CCW, assault cannon, or plasma cannon.

-3 basic marine bikers and an attack bike with Heavy Bolter (I'm presuming that's worthless, but the bike squad could be OK)

-5 basic assault marines with chainswords and bolt pistols

-A predator I could turn into a Rhino

Adding that to my existing deathwatch stuff (a five man mostly melee vet squad and a five man mostly shooty vet squad, plus a chaplain+librarian) and I feel I could make a neat little force. Has anyone been up on how the Deathwatch are looking in the codex?
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Sandtiger
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Re: Help me figure out a Deathwatch list for zero dollars?

Postby Sandtiger » Wed May 09, 2018 9:24 pm

Deathwatch codex and cards are released on May 12th. MiniWarGaming did a review of the codex but nobody has it in their hands yet.
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Re: Help me figure out a Deathwatch list for zero dollars?

Postby Draaen » Thu May 10, 2018 12:43 am

From what I saw on youtube reviews they looked like they have some good units. The bikes went way down in points to 29 for your basic veteran biker with special issue ammunition. Compare that to my white scars bikers at 27 points per dude and the fact that you can still fall back and assault because you are deathwatch and the bikers just seem better point for point then vanilla space marine bikers on paper IMO.

Intercessors also seem like they won big. They get special issue ammunition as well and only cost an additional point over regular intercessors. Plus you can get an inceptor and they can fall back and shoot or have a hellblaster in the unit so it can be protected. Again point for point I'd take them over my white scars intercessors on paper right now.

Points drops seem to be across the book and on paper they seem to be rather promising to me with how cheap the special issue ammunition is. They also have the warlord trait that lets you get command points back on a 5+ so they have a CP generator. At the very least I think they would be a good splash in a lot of power armor only lists.

Massed 19 point obsec intercessors wounding on 2+ with -1AP while being supported by a captain with re-rolls of 1's to wound from the army trait? Sounds like monster killers to me. At least that's what's jumped out at me initially.
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Re: Help me figure out a Deathwatch list for zero dollars?

Postby MrScotty » Thu May 10, 2018 8:02 am

Draaen wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 12:43 am
From what I saw on youtube reviews they looked like they have some good units. The bikes went way down in points to 29 for your basic veteran biker with special issue ammunition. Compare that to my white scars bikers at 27 points per dude and the fact that you can still fall back and assault because you are deathwatch and the bikers just seem better point for point then vanilla space marine bikers on paper IMO.

Intercessors also seem like they won big. They get special issue ammunition as well and only cost an additional point over regular intercessors. Plus you can get an inceptor and they can fall back and shoot or have a hellblaster in the unit so it can be protected. Again point for point I'd take them over my white scars intercessors on paper right now.

Points drops seem to be across the book and on paper they seem to be rather promising to me with how cheap the special issue ammunition is. They also have the warlord trait that lets you get command points back on a 5+ so they have a CP generator. At the very least I think they would be a good splash in a lot of power armor only lists.

Massed 19 point obsec intercessors wounding on 2+ with -1AP while being supported by a captain with re-rolls of 1's to wound from the army trait? Sounds like monster killers to me. At least that's what's jumped out at me initially.
Yeah, I guess for me the biggest question is "what do I do with an armored target". The CP question seems pretty obvious - a battalion of Guard or Skitarii would do a hell of a lot of good for these guys, both in terms of bringing some lascannons to the party (Deathwatch just seem not to like those. I guess that's their fluff, they hate lascannons. The bit at the nose looks like an Eldar ear) and providing a few bodies, because boy howdy do deathwatch not have a lot of those.

For CP, I think 13 would most likely be sufficient for anything I'll need. 14 if I decide I want to bring in the assassins as well for some added fun. I don't even particularly like the CP-regening trait, I think I'd rather have the blood angels smashcaptain trait (+1 to damage dealt on one weapon, throw it on a Thunder Hammer captain with a jump pack)

In general though, it just seems like you have to be super careful with your points expenditure. There's a lot of ways to highly efficiently get SIA on the field - there's a lot fewer ways to ensure you're not totally high and dry the first time you see a tank round the corner.
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Re: Help me figure out a Deathwatch list for zero dollars?

Postby MrScotty » Thu May 10, 2018 8:18 am

As a preliminary concept, pending points changes, I've got the following:

Deathwatch Battalion

Watch Captain, Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer+Chainsword, Warlord Trait +1 damage to one weapon, Relic The Beacon Angelis (lets me deep strike a unit on the board to within 6" of the captain once per game)

Librarian, bolt pistol and power sword

Deathwatch Kill Team: 5 vets, all with Storm Bolters and Storm Shields, 5 Terminators, all with power swords and storm bolters

Deathwatch Kill Team: 5 vets, sarge with TH and Storm Bolter, 2 vets with HTH, 1 vet with Storm Shield and Combi-melta, 1 vet with Storm Shield and Shotgun (Models that I own)

Deathwatch Kill Team: 5 vets, Sarge with Combi-Melta, 2x vets with Frag Cannons, 2x vets with Storm Bolter and Storm Shields, 3 bikers with basic gear, 2 Vanvets with Chainsword+Storm Shield.

Vendread with Lascannon+Missile Launcher

Rhino 2x Storm Bolter

Adeptus Mechanicus Battalion (Stygies)

Tech-Priest Enginseer

Tech-Priest Enginseer

5x Skitarii Rangers with 2x Arquebus
5x Skitarii Rangers with 2x Arc Rifle
8x Skitarii Vanguard with 2x Arc Rifle

Onager Dunecrawler with Neutron Laser and Cognis Stubbers

Assassin special FAQ Vanguard Detachment

Callidus
Vindicare
Culexus

As it turns out, I looked through my bits box and I own a frankly absurd number of space-wolfy storm shields. Which is great, because they're one of the best things for the Deathwatch out there.
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A model may assault upper levels of terrain if they charge far enough to climb them
All current beta rules in effect unless opponent prefers otherwise
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Re: Help me figure out a Deathwatch list for zero dollars?

Postby propheadprops » Thu May 10, 2018 10:17 am

Since Deathwatch is my only army I've been following it very closely :) There are some interesting strategems, in particular the one that lets you put a unit of troops or a dread in a teleportarium at deployment for 1CP, or two of those things for 3CP. Deep striking two dreads sounds like fun. The points drops are great (std vets are now 16, with all special issue ammo guns going up a point). A vet with a frag cannon is now 41 vs 49 bc the FG dropped 5 as well. As someone else mentioned, bikes are looking great. Storm bolters take special ammo now, making basic terminators a bit move viable.

As luck would have it, I just finished painting my DW force so am very excited to stomp some filthy xenos in the club in the near future. I have a batallion of scions as well (tempestor prime, primaris psyker, 3xscions, 1x command squad, Taurox Prime) to supplement if pure DW is still not looking viable.

The intercessor squads look interesting and I picked up some primaris for the first time. Things like adding an inceptor allowing the squad to fall back and shoot, and adding an aggressor to remove penalties for firing assault after advancing and for firing heavy, and it sounds like fun. The points for these are the same but with a 1pt special ammo addition for all the bolt weapons that can use it.

Here's my current list:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) ++

Regimental Doctrine: Millitarum Tempestus

+ HQ +

Primaris Psyker: Force Stave, Psychic Barrier, Psychic Maelstrom

Tempestor Prime: Display Astra Militarum Orders, Tempestus Command Rod, The Laurels of Command

+ Troops +

Militarum Tempestus Scions
Scion: Hot-shot Lasgun
Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
Scion w/ Vox-caster: Hot-shot Laspistol, Vox-caster
Tempestor: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

Militarum Tempestus Scions
Scion: Hot-shot Lasgun
Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
Scion w/ Vox-caster: Hot-shot Laspistol, Vox-caster
Tempestor: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

Militarum Tempestus Scions
Scion: Hot-shot Lasgun
Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
Scion w/ Vox-caster: Hot-shot Laspistol, Vox-caster
Tempestor: Chainsword, Plasma pistol

+ Elites +

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad
Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Taurox Prime: Taurox Gatling Cannon, Two Hot-shot Volley Guns

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Deathwatch) ++

+ HQ +

Librarian in Terminator Armor: 1) Veil of Time, 6) Null Zone, Force stave, Storm bolter

Watch Master: Bane of Monstrosities, The Beacon Angelis, Warlord

+ Troops +

Deathwatch Kill Team
Deathwatch Terminator w/ Heavy Weapon: Assault cannon, Power fist
Deathwatch Vanguard Veteran: Chainsword, Plasma pistol
Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Storm shield
Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Power sword
Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Storm shield
Deathwatch Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon
Deathwatch Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon
Watch Sergeant: Combi-plasma, Xenophase Blade

Deathwatch Kill Team
Deathwatch Veteran: Chainsword, Stalker Pattern Boltgun
Deathwatch Veteran: Chainsword, Stalker Pattern Boltgun
Deathwatch Veteran: Chainsword, Stalker Pattern Boltgun
Deathwatch Veteran: Chainsword, Stalker Pattern Boltgun
Deathwatch Veteran: Chainsword, Stalker Pattern Boltgun
Deathwatch Veteran: Power sword, Stalker Pattern Boltgun

Deathwatch Kill Team
Black Shield: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Deathwatch Vanguard Veteran: Plasma pistol, Power maul
Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Storm shield
Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Storm shield
Deathwatch Veteran: Boltgun, Chainsword
Deathwatch Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon
Deathwatch Veteran w/ Heavy Weapon: Deathwatch Frag Cannon
Watch Sergeant: Boltgun, Power sword

+ Fast Attack +

Deathwatch Bikers
Deathwatch Biker: Power maul, Twin boltgun
Deathwatch Biker: Power maul, Twin boltgun
Deathwatch Biker Sergeant: Power maul, Twin boltgun

+ Flyer +

Corvus Blackstar: Auspex Array, Hurricane bolter, Twin lascannon
2x Stormstrike Missile Launchers: 2x Stormstrike missile launcher

+ Dedicated Transport +

Razorback: Storm bolter, Twin lascannon


Before the codex it's 2010 points but I expect it'll drop by around 75-100 with the updated points so can squeeze a bit more in.

Scott - I have a lot of Deathwatch bits so to the extent you could use some for this new force, drop me a line.
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Re: Help me figure out a Deathwatch list for zero dollars?

Postby MrScotty » Thu May 10, 2018 11:06 am

Looks like a pretty solid list, IMO. I definitely think the first time anyone brand-new to a faction starts looking at building a force out of a new codex (at least, I do this) they start by looking at the "shenanigans" available, before they look at just the basic units.

"Oh man, take a captain with a jump pack and the Beacon, jump him forward, then you can teleport a kill team of five SB/SS vets and five Power Weap/SB terminators forward and dump 40 SIA shots with reroll 1s into something!"

or

"Take a kill team with 3 bikers and 2 Vanvets and you can use Combat Squad to get a mixed squad of 3 bikes and 2 vets with obsec and a pair of storm shields!"

But, I definitely think the Deathwatch is as viable or more viable than most marines at this point. They have much better means to deal with hordes, they struggle against heavy vehicles but excel at bringing down lighter ones or heavy infantry/monsters, and that one weakness is pretty easily dealt with thanks to their access to Forgeworld options like the Leviathan (double storm cannons in deep strike for one CP anyone?) and allied options like admech and guard.
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Re: Help me figure out a Deathwatch list for zero dollars?

Postby propheadprops » Thu May 10, 2018 12:05 pm

Isn't that forgeworld dread a character? I think there's one that is. So if you deep strike it with another unit in front of it it can't be immediately shot at? ;)
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Re: Help me figure out a Deathwatch list for zero dollars?

Postby MrScotty » Thu May 10, 2018 12:11 pm

No, the Leviathan just has a pair of crazy powerful guns that love to be not shot turn 1, and also like rerolls for hits and wounds and are a solid anti tank option. You could deep strike him just to plop him down in the DZ turn 1 and start pumping firepower into stuff.
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Re: Help me figure out a Deathwatch list for zero dollars?

Postby Indy » Mon May 14, 2018 10:10 am

The Leviathan Dread is not a character...

...but with T8 14W and 4++ (yes, 4+ invuln) it might as well be. Things are scaaaaaary.

You raise a very interesting point, Scott, about how so often this game comes down to the arms-race of shenanigans (shenaniganery?) rather than more straightforward tactics. I think we've all been guilty of that in some way shape or form and 7th edition certainly did nothing to curb such bad habits. Personally, I think the issue has a lot to do with Soup in general. A shenanigan can be just that--a shenanigan--when it's used in a mono-faction build . Some armies are fairly weak, so their shenanigans are the "only" option they have to be competitive. But then the nature of being able to go Soup in an army (sorry, FLG, but "soup" does not mean in the same detachment, it means in the same army) means that that one shenanigan from army X that is all it really has can then be abused by army Y that already is super powerful, thus leading to a disproportionate amount of abuse, resulting in the nerf bat...which in turn makes army X even weaker and army Y just as powerful.

And of course one can't say shenanigans this much without referencing these "wee lil' shenanigans:" https://youtu.be/JNPW2wZ4D2s
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