4 Gods Chaos Daemons

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Draaen
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4 Gods Chaos Daemons

Postby Draaen » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:01 pm

Okay so if you read my little battle report here is the updated list attempt. As usual I've cut out a lot of more expensive stuff for a more team sort of approach. Sadly Mr. Happy is left at home but happily I do get all 4 gods represented.

Battalion
Fluxmaster
Daemon Prince with Wings
5 Screamers
4 Screamers
3 x 3 Nurglings

(The I need the command points and don't mind giving up thee odd chance I force a miss)

Herald of Slaanesh on Steed of Slaanesh - Beguiling Gem
3 Fiends
3 Fiends
3 Fiends
2 Seeker Chariots

Skull Master - General (Re-roll hit rolls of 1)
6 Blood Crushers - Icon (3d6" Charge Banner)
2 x 5 Flesh Hounds
10 Furies


So the game plan is simple. Get in my opponents grill as quickly as possible. I can't realistically assault turn 1 so the game plan is turn 2. Besides Slaanesh all my dudes have some defensive buff so hopefully I can keep enough alive to be effective when I reach combat. My blood crushers will be deepstriking and getting that 3d6" assault off and drop down close to the skull smasher. They will get +1 strength and re-roll 1's to hit and be a pretty darn scary unit. The slaaneshi herald will hopefully be able to shut down a buffing character T1/T2. Ideally I've done enough damage by the end of turn 2 and am so up in their grill that melee is the deciding factor. Essentially I have a tzeentch hit squad and a slaaneshi hit squad that try to open a hole for the khorne bomb. Nurglings are the mischievous little scamps and can deep strike deny, hold objectives, absorb overwatch or try to tie up units. Theres a good number of characters that can't be targetted so my concern is that the slaaneshi guys will die in droves as they are the obvious target. Hopefully the screamers pose enough of a threat and are tough enough that they get the attnetion and can absorb the incoming fire. If the screamers die I still have a cheap psyker and a tough demon prince.

What do you guys think? is running them in this style viable? Knights and vehicles in general come to mind as being problematic to kill. How do Demon players typically deal with these problems?

Also curious on the play ability of these guys. I like them and hope I can find a good use for them
Beasts of Nurgle - No AP seems pretty damning. But for a nurgle unit they are fast and that heroic intervention maybe 1 as a guard dog for a unit? Mr. Happy and his loyal hound going out for battle? Sounds fun
Fiends of Slaanesh - i like the older models and I have some cool 3rd party models I've started practicing wet blending on that I am hoping to use as these guys. Like all slaanesh stuff they seem like scary glass cannons which is usually hard to make balanced.
Juggernaughts - Mechanical rhinos are awesome. Boy are they pricey though. That skull master was wrecking face though!
Screamers - Daemonic manta rays are awesome. I bought these guys for my fantasy army as soon as those models hit the shelves. They seem to have everything necessary to be effective
Game Preferences:
Current Beta rules in effect
I'm happy to play lower points levels with people who are staring out or building up new forces
Fair warning my doofy daemons have 3rd party models, scratch builds, old warhammer models and I haven't moved all their bases over to the 40k ones yet! Happy to switch to either Tau or White Scars.
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MrScotty
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Re: 4 Gods Chaos Daemons

Postby MrScotty » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:34 pm

Bear in mind I only have experience with daemons separately, as it seems to be predominantly the way people like to play them. I haven't played against an Undivided chaos army with daemons in a very long time. I've played most of the Tzeentch stuff (excepting Fateweaver who seems to be a never-include this edition IMO, a worse and more expensive LOC) and I have played against quite a bit of Nurgle, plus Kenji's Slaanesh and Anthony's Khorne once upon a time.

Khorne: These guys definitely seem like they benefit the most from being in an Undivided force in the current game. Because Khorne's got one shtick, and that shtick is deep striking a huge blob of nasty ne'erdowells and charging 3d6" (+1", thanks instrument!) and just bonking the pants off of some dudes. Sadly, we are now in post-FAQ land and they must wait until turn 2, leaving Khorne with highly lackluster troops and a pretty thin roster of other stuff that works well. So my ideal way to use Khorne daemons would be to pair up some sort of infantry unit with some sort of HQ unit (I often see Skulltaker or Skarbrand thrown around for the HQ) to drop in, pop the banner, and charge with the aura buff on them. Bloodletters seem to be better than Crushers for this job, but I would think Crushers would work in the same manner.

Slaanesh: Pro, absolutely ace at getting into stuff's face, and woe be to whoever gives up first turn to them. Con: die real quick. These guys absolutely want to have their "chapter tactic" aura thing going on, so I can't find fault with how you've set up your detachment.

Tzeentch: you've correctly identified I think that the aura buff is a "nice to have, not essential" for tzeentch. Combining them with Khorne and nurgle is A-OK and IMO horrors make very solid troops choices to add either some chaff (brims) or some anti infantry shooting (pinks). Offensively, tzeentch is the anti-horde faction of the chaos daemons, and bring that in with basic troops and with their Flamers, which I think you'll remember being hideously annoying in the game I used them against your Tau. The big downfall of the flying mantarays is they're expensive so the tend to get shot at with autocannons, plasma and the like - I'd advise bringing a big unit of them and dropping the +1 invuln strat to make them super obnoxious to remove. Tzeentch loves that stratagem over any other, and you want to bring blobs for days to take advantage of it.

Nurgle: Best daemon MSU troop unit, period, in the nurglings. Love those little suckers. Marine scouts wish they could irritate opponents like nurglings can. A lot of other nurgle stuff unfortunately works best in mono-nurgle, where you can reach a crazy critical mass of stacking aura buffs and just roll over opponents in an orky-style green tide. Still green, smells worse.
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A model may assault upper levels of terrain if they charge far enough to climb them
All current beta rules in effect unless opponent prefers otherwise
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Draaen
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Re: 4 Gods Chaos Daemons

Postby Draaen » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:59 pm

MrScotty wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:34 pm
Khorne: These guys definitely seem like they benefit the most from being in an Undivided force in the current game. Because Khorne's got one shtick, and that shtick is deep striking a huge blob of nasty ne'erdowells and charging 3d6" (+1", thanks instrument!) and just bonking the pants off of some dudes. Sadly, we are now in post-FAQ land and they must wait until turn 2, leaving Khorne with highly lackluster troops and a pretty thin roster of other stuff that works well. So my ideal way to use Khorne daemons would be to pair up some sort of infantry unit with some sort of HQ unit (I often see Skulltaker or Skarbrand thrown around for the HQ) to drop in, pop the banner, and charge with the aura buff on them. Bloodletters seem to be better than Crushers for this job, but I would think Crushers would work in the same manner.

Slaanesh: Pro, absolutely ace at getting into stuff's face, and woe be to whoever gives up first turn to them. Con: die real quick. These guys absolutely want to have their "chapter tactic" aura thing going on, so I can't find fault with how you've set up your detachment.

Tzeentch: you've correctly identified I think that the aura buff is a "nice to have, not essential" for tzeentch. Combining them with Khorne and nurgle is A-OK and IMO horrors make very solid troops choices to add either some chaff (brims) or some anti infantry shooting (pinks). Offensively, tzeentch is the anti-horde faction of the chaos daemons, and bring that in with basic troops and with their Flamers, which I think you'll remember being hideously annoying in the game I used them against your Tau. The big downfall of the flying mantarays is they're expensive so the tend to get shot at with autocannons, plasma and the like - I'd advise bringing a big unit of them and dropping the +1 invuln strat to make them super obnoxious to remove. Tzeentch loves that stratagem over any other, and you want to bring blobs for days to take advantage of it.

Nurgle: Best daemon MSU troop unit, period, in the nurglings. Love those little suckers. Marine scouts wish they could irritate opponents like nurglings can. A lot of other nurgle stuff unfortunately works best in mono-nurgle, where you can reach a crazy critical mass of stacking aura buffs and just roll over opponents in an orky-style green tide. Still green, smells worse.
Yeah I remember pre-FAQ there were people talking about wicked good Daemon lists that relied on deep striking in powerful units. Then the deep strike rule hit and really changed the landscape in a bad way for that style of Daemon list.

Horrors and flamers do seem ace atm. I think the flamers were good though because they deep struck in though which costs command points. So I kind of was thinking I had one of two options if I wanted to save the CPs. Either take an exalted flamer which has character protections and can go anti-tank or instead be a man leave stuff off the table and have some functional group summoning. It may be one of the strongest elements of a 4 gods list. I could summon a solution from any god so long as I had a character that didn't need to move. A unit of 9 buffed screamers sounds downright horrifying. Doing the math the flamers strike at S6 normally AP-3 and 2 Damage. With the flux caster they go up to S7 which means they have started to dip their toe into anti-tank combat ability. The tzeentch buff is too random to be reliable but if I had a nurgle psyker I could give a unit -1 T. This would allow juggernaughts on the charge or the screamers be able to effectively fight against knights in melee or really hurt lighter vehicles. I'm definitely going this route.

I was very happy to find I had 3 nurgling bases. Otherwise my rat marines were going to have to be my troops and I kind of want to keep any chaos space marines out or at least limited. Although the thought of 3 chaos sorcerors with the chapter feature that lets them advance and charge on bikes in a supreme command detachment summoning demons or alpha striking T1 with the slaaneshi contingent and a follow up T2 with screamers and juggernaughts sounds pretty tempting.

I almost think I should be taking the easy synergy buffs but looking at how I would be able to debuff the enemy in multiple ways a mono god list couldn't. That way my other units get an indirect buff. Lose redundancy for limited solutions to any problem. Create redundancy by summoning what I need for any fight. Fighting hordes summon a flamer squad. Lots of tanks exalted flamers. Armies that are slippery summon fiends or a fiend. Okay I think I've talked myself into that. It would be pretty difficult but rather rewarding if viable. The faq deep strike rule seems like it adds additional complications that may not be able to be overcome though.
Game Preferences:
Current Beta rules in effect
I'm happy to play lower points levels with people who are staring out or building up new forces
Fair warning my doofy daemons have 3rd party models, scratch builds, old warhammer models and I haven't moved all their bases over to the 40k ones yet! Happy to switch to either Tau or White Scars.
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Draaen
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Re: 4 Gods Chaos Daemons

Postby Draaen » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:00 am

So I've put a bit more thought and work into this project and I came up with a bit cooler of a backstory and a bit of a change up.

So the general headcannon of the army will be when the occulus rift opened up it mutated some little rat dudes into the skaven. A grey seer stumbled across a giant as heck pile of warpstone and uses it to enhance his magical powers so he can summon a bunch of demons and create portals so he can raid for resources for whatever diabolical scheme he has that evening pinky and the brain style.

Gameplay wise the chaos space marines can help add in some speedy units and provide some anti-tank support. Ideally though they are a very small component

Chaos Space Marines Detachment - Night Lords or Renegade Chapter
Sorceror on Bike - Force Stave, Combi-Melta
3 Bikes - 2 Meltaguns, Combi-Melta
3 Bikes - 2 Meltaguns, Combi-Melta
1 Spawn

Slaanesh Detachment:
Daemon Prince - Wings, 2 x Talons, Beguiling Gem
Herald on Steed of Slaanesh
3 x Seeker Chariot

Undivided Attachment:
Bel'Akor
Flux Master
Pox Bringer
9 Screamers
3x3 Nurglings

Which leaves 52 points for summoning/spawn creation.

So the main strategy is obvious a strong psychic phase, move quick and punch things. I have two main prongs with the slaanesh chariots, herald and daemon prince and the screamers, herald and Bel'Akor. Nurglings provide objective grabbing and the oddball poxbringer is important to summon either nurglings onto objectives and get the -1 Toughness psychic trait. With that and the +1 strength from the heralds I my screamers and daemon princes can do good against T8 targets in melee.

The rat marines are I think going to be marked slaanesh for endless cacaphony. Night lords would let me reduce leadership which would help open up the tzeentch LD or taken over power, or the slaanesh ld check for mortal wounds. Bel'Akor and the spawn add an additional -1 LD and I get access to veterans of the long war for the melta. I could in theory reduce a knight characters leadership such so that I can take it over, death hex it so it has no invul save, reduce it's toughness by one and then shoot 6 melta guns at it that wound it on 2's thanks to endless cacaphony and veterans of the long war. Or I could get it so my bikes can move 20" or 40" with warp time and still charge. Allowing them to shoot one tank and then tie up another. I am going to start with the night lords since they get a great warlord trait so that the grey seer being the general is not terrible.

I am concerned I have too many characters and not enough bodies but I really wanted to do a big model daemon list. Curious to see how Bel'Akor works out but I like that he can provide re-roll 1's across the board for my daemons and has access to death hex.
Game Preferences:
Current Beta rules in effect
I'm happy to play lower points levels with people who are staring out or building up new forces
Fair warning my doofy daemons have 3rd party models, scratch builds, old warhammer models and I haven't moved all their bases over to the 40k ones yet! Happy to switch to either Tau or White Scars.