*** 8th Edition 40k Transition Thread ***

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Re: *** 8th Edition 40k Transition Thread ***

Postby Indy » Tue May 30, 2017 11:40 am

The granularity in points costs is something that definitely caught my eye. Glad to see everything has been taken into account in that reason.

On the other hand, the real question will remain: will a Plasma gun cost the same for a BS4+ T3 W1 sv5+ Guardsmen as it will for a BS3+ T4 W1 sv3+ beefy space Marine?
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Re: *** 8th Edition 40k Transition Thread ***

Postby Draaen » Tue May 30, 2017 11:52 am

If declaring a unit is "deepstriking" (I love that they call it a Manta drop for Tau BTW) is considered a deployment that is quite strong. If half my army are deep strikers I could have just say deep strike over and over while my opponents plops down units. When i do deploy my guys I have a decent idea of where my opponent has started deploying. Also since first turn is based off of who is done deploying first all you would need to do is count the number of units an enemy has to know if you are going first or not. If you know you are going first with no scatter on deep strike why would you not deep strike in most cases? I'm assuming you aren't able to get closer than 9" to an enemy first turn with an assault unit otherwise that is a clearly better option. If you deep strike and have first turn you can just plop your dudes down where you want and at the very least keep your plans concealed from your opponent. At the very best you can put them into a better position knowing the entire deployment of your enemy. It may not be realistic for a lot of armies but I know Tau could easily pull off this trick with Drones and suits. I'm curious to see how the alternating deployment/first done goes first balances out. Certainly it changes how you balance doing MSU or larger units.
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Re: *** 8th Edition 40k Transition Thread ***

Postby The cosmic serpent » Tue May 30, 2017 12:08 pm

Yeah a high number of reserve units and "deploying" those first should help gain a deployment advantage compared to someone who has "all their cards" on the table.

Also deep striking a unit of 3 crisis each with 3 plasma guns at 9" away from the enemy, 18 plasma shots turn 1 :D fun.

Point increases in a lot of areas for Tau and back to requiring multiple crisis suits in a squad shakes things up a bit. No deepstrike on the Riptide from what I can see.
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Re: *** 8th Edition 40k Transition Thread ***

Postby spruter » Tue May 30, 2017 1:37 pm

goblin wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 10:55 am
Just read through the sisters rules and I gotta say: I like them. There's nothing crazy over the top, but there's some solid synergy, Celestine is ridiculous, and most importantly they got CHEAP. 9pt for bs3+ and a 3+ save with options to bring a lot of heavy/special weaponry is solid, then add in the occasional opportunity to shoot twice and you have, at the very least, a solid ally force.
I hope this encourages people to take them as allies. Uriah has the Astra Militarum keyword, and with the banner and warhyms, that makes for much more robust guard.
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Re: *** 8th Edition 40k Transition Thread ***

Postby hammerfixall » Tue May 30, 2017 2:17 pm

I'm starting to get the impression that 8 ed is going to be, in general, a lot more fun! Especially from a modeling perspective. What I mean is that if the balance seems to be shaping up and if it really does come to pass in the rules, it starts to open up so many more options in terms of what will be playable (or at least fun) on the table. My (limited) impression of 7th ed (and possibly 6th, based on what I've heard anecdotally) is that certain units/*stars/formations kicked ass and everything else kinda sucked. I own almost every Tau model and have played with all of them in games and came away with the impression that some were clearly much better than others considering killyness/survivability-per-point. It seems like 8th ed will balance this while also keeping per-army flavor. It almost seems like 2000 points of fire warriors could take on 2000 points of marines. Maybe I've just been drinking the warhammer-community kool-aid, but it seems like a cool direction.
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Re: *** 8th Edition 40k Transition Thread ***

Postby MrScotty » Tue May 30, 2017 2:25 pm

The biggest limiting factor I think is the fact that you must be 9" away from ANY unit. This means bubble wrapping will definitely be quite strong vs deep strikes and you'll almost always have to attack the very outermost units of your opponents formation. That might be a reason to wait for deep strikes.

Infiltrators definitely seem to give them a run for their money though. 12" away and still having the ability to move, pretty awesome.
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Re: *** 8th Edition 40k Transition Thread ***

Postby wnbrice » Tue May 30, 2017 3:12 pm

We have seen at least one unit with the vanguard ability in the sisters book that allows you to take a scout move basically before the game starts. However it does not have any restriction on charging, so that is something to consider as well. Will be interesting to see how that works out.
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Re: *** 8th Edition 40k Transition Thread ***

Postby Draaen » Tue May 30, 2017 3:12 pm

MrScotty wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 2:25 pm
The biggest limiting factor I think is the fact that you must be 9" away from ANY unit. This means bubble wrapping will definitely be quite strong vs deep strikes and you'll almost always have to attack the very outermost units of your opponents formation. That might be a reason to wait for deep strikes.

Infiltrators definitely seem to give them a run for their money though. 12" away and still having the ability to move, pretty awesome.
Reading the Manta strike it says any enemy unit. So if I go first and I have some missile pod crisis suits I can deep strike them in my own deployment zone guaranteed and blast people unless my opponent has tricks. Naturally different units may want to wait but an army like the Tau which has a lot of deep strikers that want to be close ish to unload weapons but not be right in your face will like to deep strike turn 1 even if it is within their own deployment zone if there is a guaranteed first turn. It gets a lot dicier if you go second cause then you may get assaulted out of deep strike and not able to deploy them where you want.

Not sure how it will work for other factions but the homing beacon is placed during the movement phase on stealth suits and allows deep strikers to come in within 6" of it (no restrictions on enemy pressence, also same Tau sept only so no ally shenanigans) but the beacon gets destroyed if an enemy unit ends it's move within 9". The enemy is not ending it's move as it never moved so I'm sure you'll see the argument that the beacon is not destroyed until the opponents next turn (hopefully clarified in an FAQ). Further deep strike occurs at the end of the movement phase so presumably the homing beacon can be used first turn as deepstrikers come in at the end of the movement phase.

So Turn 1 an infiltrating Stealth squad gets within 12" of an enemy. Then runs in with an 8" move drops the homing beacon 2" forward in the movement phase. Then at the end of the movement phase a unit deep strikes within the 6" bubble allowing for a unit to potentially deploy 4" (5"-10" with a run, 1" in front of the lines if the beacon must be 9" away from the enemy when placed) into an enemy line. Naturally this is suicidal for Tau and not likely to happen. I would keep an eye out for homing beacons on things like scouts or speeders that may allow you to bring terminators or sanguinary guard down in the middle of your opponents army and then be able to get a guaranteed assault out of it. Or assisted suicide melta/flamer squads... probably points prohibitive but that name made me laugh a little.
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Re: *** 8th Edition 40k Transition Thread ***

Postby goblin » Tue May 30, 2017 3:34 pm

I would keep an eye out for homing beacons on things like scouts or speeders that may allow you to bring terminators or sanguinary guard down in the middle of your opponents army and then be able to get a guaranteed assault out of it.
I don't expect to see much, if any, of this. They tried it in AoS and the results were so bad that they completely removed the rule from the unit that had it in a recent update. They know what the consequences are, so I expect them to be wary.
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Re: *** 8th Edition 40k Transition Thread ***

Postby The cosmic serpent » Tue May 30, 2017 3:49 pm

Missed the homing beacon on the stealth suits. Still not sure why it matters in a game where there is no scatter? Is this strictly to get around the 9" minimum away from the enemy? Tri-Melta Crisis inbound :D

EDIT: also the Vanguard detachment looks like a nice way to run a farsight list if you don't want to bring any firewarriors/kroot. I have to go back and look at scoring though and see if it is troop only.

2nd EDIT: everything is scoring according to mission leaks. You just have to have more models within 3" of a marker than your opponent.